Larry Osterman's WebLog : Surveillance at a local Shell station

Tuesday, August 31, 2004 7:26 PM LarryOsterman

Surveillance at a local Shell station

Valorie was out getting gas the other day and she noticed that the attendant at the local Shell station was collecting license plate #s, descriptions of vehicles and a description of the driver for all the vehicles filling up at the pump.

The station attendant actually came out of the mini-mart to take the information for a vehicle that didn't have tags on it.

While I'm sure that that's legal (after all, since they are just observing external behaviors, I'm sure that people using a Shell station have no reasonable expectation of privacy (and the expectation of privacy only holds for government agents anyway)), it's still creepy.

Is this some kind of post-9/11 thing? Or is it just aggressive datamining (coordinating not just the credit card information but the vehicle and driver information)?

Also, I'm wondering where I can find Shell Oil's privacy policy. I've looked on the web but can't find a privacy policy that holds for non-internet activities.

And then, of course, I wonder how many other gas stations (and other stores) log this kind of information. Kinda makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Filed under: Personal Stuff

Comments

# re: Surveillance at a local Shell station

Wednesday, September 01, 2004 12:00 AM by jamesl

The same thing was happening at my local gas stop last winter. I asked, "What gives?" "People are driving off without paying," he said. "Pretty cold job," I replied. It was snowing and he wasn't smiling.

About a week later, cameras had been installed and the most distant pumps were "prepay only". They may be collecting customer information and datamining it and violating some privacy policy. I think they're catching crooks.

# re: Surveillance at a local Shell station

Wednesday, September 01, 2004 12:05 AM by Roger Lipscombe

In the UK, the pumps are generally all covered by CCTV cameras, and can only be used when turned on remotely by the operator.

This gives them a chance to get a good shot of both you and your number plate.

It's used to prevent people driving away without paying.

Legally (here at least), as long as there are "CCTV in operation" notices posted on the station forecourt, they're covered.

More and more, though, we're seeing pay-at-pump facilities -- where you put your credit/debit card into a reader at the pump.

# re: Surveillance at a local Shell station

Wednesday, September 01, 2004 11:43 AM by Jeremy Brayton

I think they're walking the thin line in their data collection. Honestly I see no honest benefit from collecting that information. Sure you may have drive-offs but you're supposed to catch those as they happen, not take down the information of EVERY customer in the event that a rogue drive-off MIGHT happen.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were doing something a little more intrusive with the information but that's just my conspiracy theory mind going overboard. I don't trust practices like this because while they claim it may detour someone, I see no real benefit or proof that it actually does.

# re: Surveillance at a local Shell station

Wednesday, September 01, 2004 11:55 AM by Gene Hamilton

drive-offs might happen more than you think. I think its a big enought that in Missouri if you drive-off and get caught your license can be taken away.

# re: Surveillance at a local Shell station

Wednesday, September 01, 2004 6:05 PM by Norman Diamond

The drive-off problem in the US is severe enought that it has been reported in newspapers worldwide.

US taxes on gasoline are relatively low. So US drivers aren't accustomed to current prices (even though current prices in the US are still around half of what they are in most other industrialized countries). Then they take it out on the owners of gasoline stations.

9/1/2004 11:43 AM Jeremy Brayton

> you're supposed to catch those as they
> happen, not take down the information of
> EVERY customer in the event that a rogue
> drive-off MIGHT happen.

Right. How do you arrange to get this information at the time of figuring out that it's a drive-off?

If privacy were being invaded in this operation then I'd agree that some solution should be found where the information will be gathered at the time of figuring out that it's a drive-off. But this is just publicly visible information that is being written down, no invasion of privacy.

# re: Surveillance at a local Shell station

Wednesday, September 01, 2004 7:46 PM by The Wife

I guess if the information is just being collected to prevent drive-offs, that'd be understandable.

Why then did they have several sheets with the information? Seems to me that either you keep the sheet (because someone drove off) or you throw the sheet away when you fill it. The clerk behind the counter just flipped to the next empty page and started writing. There were several pages folded over on this clipboard. I guess they are pages covered with the information from previous customers but I could not see their contents well enough to verify.

Writing the information to track down drive-offs is one thing. While I dislike the invasion of privacy, it is an understandable thing gas stations need to do to protect themselves. Writing and keeping the information after it has become apparent that no crime has beem (or will be) perpetrated is another. That's where I would draw a distint line.

# re: Surveillance at a local Shell station

Wednesday, September 01, 2004 10:06 PM by Chris

I guess the next feature we'll see on gas station consoles is to OCR the license plate and if the car has a record of driving off without paying, just swap gas for water in the pump.

And of course to avoid the legal liability, this system would probably have the best encryption/deletion technology known to man.

# re: Surveillance at a local Shell station

Thursday, September 02, 2004 5:51 PM by Norman Diamond

9/1/2004 7:46 PM The Wife

> Writing and keeping the information after it
> has become apparent that no crime has beem
> (or will be) perpetrated is another.

Agreed. The base note didn't mention all the details you mentioned. I guess I'd wonder if the gas station actually keeps all those notes or if they throw them away at the end of each day.

Though it's still only publicly visible information, no invasion of privacy.

# re: Surveillance at a local Shell station

Sunday, September 05, 2004 10:02 PM by Dylan

It is encouraging that the information is being recorded manually. This makes it far less likely that it would be used for any datamining activities. No gas station owner is going to pay for someone to sit there every night and type up the license plates of every car that visited that day.

The UK CCTV systems are more scary. Even scarier is that you can buy petrol at any pay-at-the-pump setup in the UK and you don't need a signature or even pin number, you can just plug in any old credit card. That says to me that there *must* be recording of car licence plates and cctv footage at least long enough to verify that credit card transactions are not being made with stolen cards.

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